ChillTheKeel
9:55 Sat Feb 16
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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You've got to be a poundland plum to be unable to appreciate why many people have a problem with him.
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southwoodford
9:53 Sat Feb 16
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Churchill stood against extremism on the left and on the right. Unlike many today he called out fascism on both extremes and more to the point fought and defeated it by uniting the country behind him. This is the reason he is respected, not because he was kind, perfect and peace loving but because he was brave and a man of action. He delivered on the toughest of decisions where other politicians froze. The pound shop Lenins aren't fit to lick his boots let alone debate his worthiness.
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normannomates
2:33 Sat Feb 16
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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The General 2.00
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The General
2:00 Sat Feb 16
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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My grandad - who lived in the east end on our manor through the war and after and saw people around him killed - burned - crushed and maimed under the German blitz on london - liked him and thought he had a set of bollocks on him sorely missing from most of the politicians of the day. Despite being posh and a tory he was well thought of and got done what needed to be. He had the respect of the londoners who were there and those who know - know this.
That view has always been enough for me coming from someone who was there. The magnitude of what he stood for, represented and achieved in those years renders all the rest and all the sniping with benefit of hindsight meaningless.
Those who were there and lived it and handed it down are all that matter. I heard it first hand from someone there mate and no clever columnist or looking back rewrite can eclipse that.
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normannomates
1:45 Sat Feb 16
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Gallipoli was his nemesis.. He never got over that debacle..
A man of massive contradictions.. But that likely could be said for all historical figures of note.
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normannomates
1:37 Sat Feb 16
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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He was a manic depressive.. So yea.. Could be a cunt most of the time.. Impossible to reason with.. Impossible to live with.
But his good days were rather impressive..
got through WW2 in no small part because his strong leadership.. Don't ever underestimate that.
He took over from a weak as piss mug who Adolf duly took the cleaners
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geoffpikey
5:48 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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NEITHER.
Life is not that simple.
He was a good oratory leader.
So was fucking Hitler.
Wake up.
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defjam
5:33 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Not read the thread but I used to admire his rousing speeches, Was the leader Britain needed at the time.
But I have been to his drum as it's not far from me and read a bit and it seems he was a bit of a cunt in real life, A supporter of eugenics and hated Indians, amongst other things.
No thank you please.
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After8
5:26 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Hero. Churchill did make mistakes though. Gallipoli for one.
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HairyHammer
4:01 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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ivan 1.04
The thread title is not the problem and having a discussion is why this is a great country.
I absolutely find it disgusting that people should swear at him and call him terrible names, that is not right at all.
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Far Cough
3:00 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Bader by all accounts was a bit of a cunt, as was Guy Gibson but two very brave people for different reasons
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Tomshardware
2:45 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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He was a good leader but a bit of a cunt to. While we're on the subject of cunts, Douglass Bader was said to be a massive cunt.
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ChillTheKeel
1:14 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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No, it's a sad state of affairs when flakes dictate who we can and can't cunt-off. Especially given the fact the Alkie had some of the best put-downs in modern history.
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ivan
1:04 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Hero of course
It's a sad state of affairs we even have to endure the title of this thread
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Westham67
1:03 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Nothing to do with Dutch but US and UK intelligence FDR and Churchill knew but nothing was passed to the Admiral of the US Pacific fleet
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Far Cough
1:00 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Agreed, how would the Dutch know the target was Pearl? Yamamoto's fleet didn't travel in a straight line from Japan to Pearl
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
12:07 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Why would the Dutch inform the British instead of the Americans?
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Westside
12:01 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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he whole Pearl Harbour story interests me.
While I was living in the Netherlands it appeared to be accepted (but rarely mentioned) knowledge that a Dutch submarine operating out in the area (either on it's way to or from the Dutch East Indies) spotted the Japanese fleet sailing towards Pearl Harbour and reported such back to the Dutch Government (in exile).
Churchill was/became aware of this as suppressed the message so as to allow the Japs to attack and bring the yanks onside.
How would have the Dutch known the Japanese fleet was heading to Pearl Harbour?
Even if they did inform the Americans, all that would happen, is that the American fleet (including carriers) would have sailed to intercept the Japaneses fleet and the battle would have taken place at sea.
Or the Americans would have been ready for the attack on Pearl Harbour (dispersed ships and planes, on alert ready for the attack), which wouldn't have been as successful.
Either way the USA would have entered the war.
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BRANDED
9:03 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Oh yeah. Council houses.
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BRANDED
9:03 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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I never understand how the working class became serf Tories. I mean support Spurs but NEVER be a Tory.
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ChillTheKeel
8:33 Fri Feb 15
Re: Winston Churchill - hero or villain?
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Strange thread seeing as as many West Ham fans family would have at some stage had suffered the Blitz!!!
____________
He was booed.
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